Talk:Gifts (Origins)
This will have to be in table format when we get more info, otherwise it will be incredibly difficult to scroll through.--Selty 07:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Sorry guys I am going to have to remove this until release date. --Selty 10:25, November 1, 2009 (UTC) More Gifts Some items I found that havent been added yet: Dog # Beef Bone - Approval unknown. (he's currently at max.) Locations: Ostagar. # Lamb Bone - Approval unknown. Morrigan # Silver Bracelet - Approval +5 Location: Tower of Ishal. # Gold Rope Necklace - Approval +9 Location: Bodahn Feddic. Gave Morrigan a second gold rope necklace and only got +5. Chance that I mis-read the original +9? very possible. Must investigate further. -unknown According to the Dragon Age official message boards, each subsequent gifting of the same item results in a diminished return on approval. Morrigan may be +9 the first, time, but it will be +5 the second time you give her that same gift, and lower each time. Nadante 02:46, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Alastair # Steel Bracers - Approval +5 Location: Redcliff Castle cellar unused gifts # Small Gold Bar # The Rose of Orlais (book) # White Runestone # Water-stained Portrait # Chantry Amulet More as I find them. NinjaWeazel 19:03, November 4, 2009 (UTC) I've actually found all those items at differnt places, only a few of them seem to be placed in static ones, so I suggest we remove the Location bit out, unless we know it's a confirmed drop from a certain place, like the book from Morrigans mother and what not. Nihwtf 01:26, November 5, 2009 (UTC)nihwtf Works for me. half the reason I listed them was to check for this exact situation. I'll leave 'em there for now, if people want to add to the list to see if there's a few common spawn areas. But I wouldn't expect to see them in the final article. NinjaWeazel 02:48, November 5, 2009 (UTC) Yeah. What I'd really like to see out of this gift section is what items give the most approval with who, the few items I've listed launch special 'cutscenes', thus I felt they were the most important ones to add early on. Nihwtf 03:05, November 5, 2009 (UTC)nihwtf Table for gifts New to this wiki thing but wanted to contribute something pretty worthwhile - I finally got my hands on the Prima guide. Here's a formatted table as was suggested earlier. I am not so hot with wiki formatting, I built it in html and then used an editor to convert to wiki format. It's definitely not pretty but should do the job. Should we add a section for descriptions of each gift or make a page per gift? Cynnamin 17:59, November 5, 2009 (UTC) Do we have enough information on these gift items, otherwise it is useless for maintaining separate pages -- Snfonseka :These is about the sum total of it, I believe, with the exception of a description of each item. There are also miscellaneous items which are not keyed to anything in particular which I would like to also include in another table. When I have a more complete list, I will begin creating it. A page per gift does seem rather cumbersome, unless perhaps the gift, as a plot element, triggers a cutscene. Cynnamin 18:48, November 5, 2009 (UTC) I'm not seeing a bonus for the Tribal necklace. It gives the same approval as a standard gift for Morrigan. I've never seen it above +5. Anyone else can confirm/deny that Tribal necklace is special for Morrigan? Even in the table below, it shows that the necklace only gives +5. A123456 03:34, November 14, 2009 (UTC) :: I got that information from the Prima guide. It may be a non-bonus item but it's certainly suited to her personality and history. :) Cynnamin 19:05, November 14, 2009 (UTC) Tables were merged into main article so I have removed them to declutter this page. Cynnamin 19:07, November 14, 2009 (UTC) ---- Approval mechanics? Hey, just a quick question. Has it been considered that the approval for gifts get lower with more gifts given (not necessarily the same ones)? I just started using some but noticed that it basically gets -1 for every one given to a specific char (down to 1). For example, giving Andraste’s Grace and Blue Satin Shoes to Leliana results in +17 and +9, while the other way round it's +10 and +16. Please check! MyNickIsTakenSoIUseThisOne 01:20, November 8, 2009 (UTC) -- Alexander This contains only the initial approval. -- Snfonseka How Approval Works There are some misconceptions about how approval works here. The basics are thus: # You get a base +5 for any gift given. # Each character has a sort of list of gifts which give an additional +5 bonus. # The total approval has a -1 penalty for every previous gift given. # Having a negative approval cuts the bonus in half. # You always get at least +1 In addition to this each character usually has a couple special gifts which initiate a dialog or a quest that can give more approval. 08:50, November 8, 2009 (UTC) Hm alright. You two surely know more about the gifts than me. I saw the diminishing part noted under non-specific gifts whereas the example I noted works the same with a "plot gift", so I wondered. MyNickIsTakenSoIUseThisOne 09:43, November 8, 2009 (UTC) -- Alexander The above 5 rules matches my experiences. MyNick, your example above is in line with the 5 rules above. The 3rd rule states that each gift will give a cumulative -1 penalty to the next gift. So your first gift gets full value, whatever that is. Then your next gift, no matter the value, will get a -1 from whatever it would have been. Changing the order illustrates that perfectly. The same thing would happen if you gave a normal gift and then a bonus gift. You would see a +5 and then a +9. Switch the order would make +10 and then +4. For most characters, if you talk to them and agree with their views, you can get the approval up pretty high to start and then a couple of bonus/plot gifts later, they should be near the max. A123456 19:23, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Rule 5 actually isn't right. Once you reach 100 with anyone you will stop receiving any approval points for gifts or conversations. Which makes sense! --MiyuEmi 14:08, November 11, 2009 (UTC) Archived information from Zevran This actually belongs with Sten, I think, but was listed under Zevran. Please move into the correct table when confirmed. *'Painting of the Rebel Queen': **Unconfirmed location: Denerim - was either a vendor or out of the chest in the back of the warehouse **Approval: +10 **Also found in Chest within Redcliffe Castle. (confirmed) **Sten also has high Approval Thanks. Cynnamin 19:57, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Tables The tables are kind of stretching too wide. I think item descriptions should be removed, because they don't really add anything useful and are the main reason the tables are so wide. (Item descriptions could be on a separate item lists page?) Just a thought. - 14:03, November 11, 2009 (UTC) Golden Mirror Removed comment to here until this can be verified. "If your lockpick skill is high enough, this item can be found in a chest between Ostagar and Lothering. I believe it is in the Tower, but I would have to confirm that. However it is possible to get this item before you reach Orzammar for free." -Andaryn 17:00, November 11, 2009 (UTC) Spoiler tag misuse Some people apparently have a problem with putting the spoiler tag on the only piece of information on this page which is actually a plot spoiler, and insist on putting it on the entire page instead. You don't find out Loghain is recruitable until very close to the end of the game, unlike everything else on this page. If you have a problem with this, you'd better go edit the Companion page too, because apparently the people who wrote that one all decided to put loghain at the bottom beneath a spoiler tag, EXACTLY like what I did. You'd also better go edit the page on Loghain to put the spoiler tag at the top instead of right above where it says you can recruit him, since apparently spoiler tags belong at the top of the page. In fact, you'd better rewrite basically every single page with a "spoiler" tag on it in the entire wiki. What is the problem with putting Loghain at the bottom? Do you think someone looking for him will scroll 30% of the way through the page, notice everyone's in alphabetical order before scrolling to the bottom, see that "Loghain" is not with the Ls, and then just say "Well, he must not be here, might as well give up" and close their browser? Figuring out who to give gifts to is something a lot of people will want to do, and they'll all be doing it long before they find out Loghain is recruitable. This is the exact situation the spoiler tag is for, and if you just put it at the top, you might as well remove it entirely. If you really disagree with everything I just said, I encourage you to report this page. Idmmao 22:35, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :But what you are totally missing out on is that he's listed in the Table of Contents. Someone coming to the page will see it in the TOC. The spoiler tag should be above the TOC to warn them they might see something they'd rather not know - and since it should be above there, thus Logain should be put into alphabetical discussion. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have him out of order because of the Table of Contents and the need for the spoiler tag above it. Cynnamin 22:44, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::I never noticed the table of contents. Fixed. Idmmao 22:50, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :::I think you misread what I stated. I feel the spoiler tag should be at the top of the article. Arbitrarily not including an item on a page out of a table of contents does not make any sense. The TOC is put there to make it easier for users to browse the article. If the spoiler tag is at the top of the article, Loghain still should be included in alphabetical order because the spoiler tag warns the reader that there could be plot-ruining elements below it and they should proceed with caution. Cynnamin 22:56, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::::It is not arbitrary. It has a reason. That reason is because Loghain being recruitable is the one and only spoiler on the page, and it's a pretty significant spoiler, particularly because it happens so late in the game. The table of contents missing a single entry which you can easily find just by scrolling through a short page or using ctrl+f is an insignificant loss in comparison to having a spoiler in bold in the middle of a page about basic companion information with no spoiler notes around it. Having the spoiler note at the top of the article is near worthless, because many readers will assume that, since it's right at the top of the page, someone running the wiki just thinks the entire gift system is a spoiler. Or maybe they'll try to proceed with caution, by just reading the headings until they get to the one they want... whoops, the spoiler is IN the heading. In special, large print. In a special color. Or maybe they'll just look up the character they're interested in in the table of contents. Whoops, the spoiler is IN the table of contents. I don't know how they could avoid it, the way it is now, without just not using the page at all. That is the problem all of my edits have solved. Idmmao 23:44, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :::::I've given it a non-spoiler heading, though honestly I don't see why a heading matters so much.Idmmao 23:50, November 11, 2009 (UTC) As people have different ideas on what could be considered a spoiler (personally I think something like finding Duncan's shield is a spoiler)I prefer we take a cautious approach to spoilers. If we place a warning at the top of the gifts we remove the risk of spoiling anyone. Loleil 09:30, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :I do not understand how removing the spoiler tag from Loghain is being MORE cautious. I explained above how putting a spoiler note on the entire page is much less useful than putting it on the one piece of information on the page that is a major end game plot spoiler. It's not like Duncan comes back from the dead to give you his shield, after all, but if you really think that's in the same class as Loghain, then why don't you figure out a way to put a spoiler tag on that specifically as well, instead of removing the one on Loghain? And in just the matter of hours since I made these changes, someone has complained that it wasn't ENOUGH, and you want to REDUCE the amount of protection around Loghain? I'm making one more change, then I'm done. I'm frankly disappointed in how this whole thing has played out. I'm certain that guy is not the first and far from the last who will have his game experience spoiled by the stubbornness of the people editing this wiki, given how many edits and how much arguing it took me just to get the second biggest spoiler in the game taken out of the main body of this page. Idmmao 13:31, November 12, 2009 (UTC) This page spoiled the game Am only ~25-30% through the game. Came looking to see who would like certain gifts like the demon-head amulet, and am leaving knowing that Loghain joins the party. Would never have seen that coming, and am very disappointed to have a major plot point spoiled in that way. Putting "The Last Companion" in the header and table of contents was a wonderful idea. If only it didn't say "Loghain" on the line immediately below that. The small "spoiler" warning, which I saw only after reading the word "Loghain" did not help. It's the same background color as the page art, and is only placed right next to the spoiler. By the time you see the warning, you've also seen the spoiler. 03:28, November 12, 2009 (UTC) Arkhan Shale's gifts Do I need to recover Shale's memories before giving gifts? Currently when giving gifts Shale's approval only goes up +1 per remarkable gemstone. CyberSkull 04:30, November 12, 2009 (UTC) I have not yet recovered Shale's memories and each remarkable gemstone gives him a moderate amount of approval (5-7, I can't quite remember). Sheltim 15:06, November 12, 2009 (UTC) Oops I was doing some updates to the chart, and I added in Loghain as a column, only based on what I'd read at another site. I didn't even realize who it was talking about, I drew a complete mental blank on the name - you know, sounded familiar, but. Oops. Sorry. One edit I made was taking "Wine" off of the "These are generic items with no special bonus for anyone" list, seeing as it can give +10 approval with Wynne. It is a "love" gift with her. Someone put it back on the list, though. Oh well. Oh, and the "there are a bunch of misconceptions, here's the truth: any item gives +5 approval" should probably be removed, seeing as it's, well, a complete misconception. :Wine is definetely not generic, Wynne gets +10. -- 12:32, November 15, 2009 (UTC) ::Well for me generic means just that it is not a special gift bought/found at one given place, instead it can be randomly found at some vendors.kashper Tiara gift Stole a Tiara from Fayd the Apprentice in the Market in Denerim. So far it looks like a +5 gift for Alistair, Leliana, and Morrigan; haven't really gotten far enough to test it on others. (Somehow I don't think Stubbs the Dog will care.) Chart is just wrong The chart at the bottom of the page is just flat-out wrong. It was clearly created initially by someone who didn't realize that there were declining returns on gifts - no gifts in the game will ever give "+1 to +2" if it's the very first gift you give someone, based on my knowledge of the mechanics. But I don't want to just delete the table entirely, because it's a useful lookup. Someone should convert it to being a list of all gifts with just four symbols used: One each for "Accept", "Refuse", "Bonus", and "Plot". I'll do it myself eventually if no one gets to it first, but it might take me a while to get to it. Bobson 16:24, November 15, 2009 (UTC) :Ok, I did get around to starting it myself. Check out User:WoWWiki-Bobson/Gift_Chart. Feel free to add more information into it or comment on it. If no one objects, I'll replace the chart that's currently here Wednesday night. --06:04, November 16, 2009 (UTC)